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Hosts:
Tamsin Miller, Whistler Arts Council
Gudrun Eichbauer, Prologue Integrated Consulting

Tamsin Miller:
I remember when I first came to Contact. I came with a group of people who had been coming here for some time. I’d arrived fairly recently from England; I used to work for a theatrical agent in a big theatre in England. And I was completely confused by this; I had never been to anything like this before. I had married, strangely enough, someone who was in the muffin business so we had started going to things like food trade fairs and stuff like that. Half way through this event I suddenly thought ‘Oh, it’s a trade fair! That’s what it is, it’s a trade fair.’ And then I felt really rude because it seemed to be very unpleasant to say that it was a trade fair for people somehow. But that is, essentially what the event is. If you treat it as such, I found that that helped me tremendously when I had a kind of mind-set for it because I was used to going to food trade fairs and going around and sort of ‘ooh, buffalo meat, mmm, a bit of that, oh that looks good and ohh, there’s something spicy.’

Then I thought, well if you treated this in rather the same way and you looked at all the individual acts as being sort of different flavours and different qualities and you could sort of dip into each of the different things. I found that it was really important to do that. I found that visiting all the booths if you can -- I found that the more times I come here, in a way it’s an advantage and a disadvantage, because you get to know people, which is wonderful, but when you don’t know people you have that sort of anonymity and also, a completely open mind about what you want to look at and where you want to go and what you want to see. So I really encourage people to look at as much as they can in the Contact Room.

Often, some thing that you don’t think will be for you might turn out to be something that you would like to sample, that you can work into your programme. And also, by talking to people like Gudrun, you will find that they have a huge wealth of knowledge and they also have a really wide range of people that they represent and if the person that has been showcased maybe isn’t for you but they may have someone else that they can advise you with. So, in the contact Room I really encourage people to visit as much as they can.

Gudrun Eichbauer:
I would actually like to start out, just by show of hands, who is a presenter and who is an artist or manager just to get a general overview -- since I am a manager -- who is a manager, who is an artist?

TM:
The rest are all presenters?

GE:
No? You’re not a presenter?

AUDIENCE MEMBER:
We’re here selecting for our School District.

GE:
So you would be presenting in your School District then?

AM:
Oh, if that’s what you call it, okay.

GE:
Okay…

TB:
Sorry. If we ever use terminology like that, I didn’t understand a lot of the terminology when I came, either, but now it just rrrolls off my tongue.

AM:
By ‘Presenter’ we thought that we would be putting on a workshop here.

TM:
Oh, okay, no. A presenter is someone who’s presenting the performer in the district.

GE:
In the district: that means in a public show or in a School District or anything where you put an artist on stage.

Well, I’m precisely wanting to reiterate what Tamsin was saying. When I came the first time, it was really overwhelming for me. I didn’t quite know how this ‘trade-show’ for artists is supposed to go: that there are these different sequences, that there is what we call the Contact Room, where yes we all have -- the artists or the managers have a table like this and it’s long rows of tables where you put your display in the best way of presenting yourself. That, I think is probably the first hurdle for anyone on that side of the fence. How do you make that happen? You’re coming in, you’re dealing with, most of the time, a new venue, a new hotel, you don’t know the town but you realize you have to be quite on time in terms of the schedule. That’s, sort of, more the technical side of what the artists and managers are facing; is getting all of their stuff into this room in a relatively short time, setting it up so it is inviting and then, being sure that it is in that Contact Room. Afterwards, usually the doors are closed so you won’t be able to access it. It’s one of the things that are really important for everybody to note that the schedules are quite tight. Don’t leave anything in the room that you’ll need in the other times during the day. When you’re looking at your schedule, there’s the showcases and there’s the different workshops.

During those times, the Contact Room is closed. So you can leave all your display material, all your presenting press kits and videos and so forth, you can leave that. It’s a good idea, usually to leave those kinds of things under the table and just have a few of your display things on top of the table. When you’re coming the first time, I would believe it is overwhelming, you don’t qui9te know what should you attend first. Just think about that you want to generally meet and observe. The contact room is an important part but it’s not the only part. It’s quite important that you think of having the energy to go also to all the showcases. I don’t know how many of you that are here today…is there anybody that’s going to showcase? Is that the first time that you are showcasing?

AM:
Here, yes.

GE:
Here, yes. But you have been on other trade shows.

AM:
Yes.

GE:
Okay, so you do have an idea of the showcase part…. Okay. Do you have somebody that helps you at your table or are you doing both?

AM:
I’m actually the manager. I’m not performing.

GE:
Okay, you’re working the table.

AM:
That’s right.

GE:
Okay. Okay, I will turn it back over to Tamsin.

TM:
Going on, I think, from where Gudrun was with the Contact Room and how overwhelming it can be. After several years of coming here I eventually had a bright idea, ‘Oh, I know, I’ll make a form.’ And so I made a form because I like to blame everything I can on menopause. But, unfortunately, I will probably finish with it one day and then I will still not have a memory. And I don’t know, then I guess I can blame it on old age. Or my children. I try to have a meeting with my group before we come, so that I have an idea of: a) vaguely what I’m looking for because often you get completely distracted when you’re here and book something completely different.

B) I try to check my calendar. It’s really important to have that done and preferably to have a calendar, which I usually forget, but I try to have a calendar for this year and next year. And have your vital community dates written in it, because you know if the Pack is organizing a spaghetti night or something annually on the eleventh of November and you go and book something, nobody is going to come to it because they’re going to support their kids. So, it’s really important to have an overview of when you’re dates are going to be. It’s also really important to try and get as much information at one time as you can, because otherwise you…we don’t have a lot of time in the contact room so you end up going back and back and back because you think, ‘Oh God, I wonder if they need a dance floor.”

What I did in the end -- and if anyone wants these I have run off some extra ones -- I made up a sheet. So it’s got the name of the artist and who their manager is and the telephone numbers. And then it has how many performers they have because we often offer hotel rooms. We’re luck we come from Whistler so sometimes we can offer that as well, but if you have to pay for them or billet them out it’s really important you know how many people you’re taking care of. Then whether they have a technical staff or whether you have to provide that. How many rooms of accommodation they need because they may bring ten people but they may all sleep together for all you know so you may only need two rooms. What their publicity is like, which is important too, because whether you’re going to have to be making up posters or get caught short with anything like that. Whether they’ve got any special requirements like dance floors of pianos because that’s all going to add to your costs. Their tech requirement: do they bring their own? If you come from a small community -- everyone thinks that Whistler has got pots of money and so it must have everything but in fact we don’t and we’ve only this year got a small theatre. We’ve been presenting in churches and pubs and all sorts of different things. So you need to know what your technical costs are going to be, because they can really up the whole cost of the production.

What sort of venue they can use, because again, some of them can’t perform in a church and it’s really important to be completely upfront with the artist about what you have. If you tell them, ‘Oh we’ve got a 500 seat church with wonderful acoustics,’ and they get there and discover it’s a dreadful, dusty old pit, they’re not going to be terribly happy. But if you say, ‘Look, we’ve got this dreadful, dusty old pit. Do you mind playing there?’ then they don’t mind nearly as much if they know what they’re coming to.

I’ve got areas for whether they’re First Nations or not because we’ve got a large First Nations community near us. Often you can get addition funding if you have some connections there.

I’ve got a space for whether from this province, out of province or whether they’re from abroad because that will affect your application for a grant. There will be various discussions here and there will be very useful people for you to meet to talk about grants and things. But if you have people from out of province you get less of a percentage and if you have them from out of the country you don’t get any.

I also have an area for hospitality requirements, whether they’re ridiculous, large, medium or small. Some of the technical riders that you read, you just go, ‘Oh my God! Who is this person, Elton John?’

Gudrun can address that but I did talk to an agent and they said, ‘Well, often they put things like, “only blue smarties” on it because they recon that if you know that they’re asking for a little bit more often you will give them at least soup and sandwiches.’ I don’t know whether that’s necessarily true.

And then I’ve got space with an idea for budget and sponsor ideas. You may have a wonderful idea if you’re presenting a children’s performer and you think, ‘Oh well that would really tie in wit the local toy store. Maybe they would pay for it,’’ or something.

I’ve found that that is really invaluable.

I do find that I get to places and then I’m kind of embarrassed to fill the whole thing in because it seems to be taking such a long time. But I’ve always regretted it when I haven’t, because then I’ve gone away and found that, ‘Oh I really do need to know this.’

I’m not pushing that on you, please don’t think I am, but if you just want to look at it or anything, you’re more than welcome to do that.

The other thing I wanted to say -- when you are talking to agents and performers, sometimes you have to be quite firm. Sometimes you will get a very shy and retiring person at the table, sometimes you will get someone who is very strong and really wants you to book their person. You may have to be quite firm about it and say, ‘I would love to talk with you in a minute, but I would really like a chance just to look quietly for a minute if I may.’ It’s sometimes easier just to look through the press kits and look quietly by yourself for a minute and then formulate your questions. If there’s someone that you really love their stuff but you honestly don’t think you’re going to present them, they will probably give you a CD but I usually offer to pay for them, because it costs the performers a tremendous about to put together their packages. They usually do give them to you but I like to offer at least, because I don’t like to grab all that stuff and leave them short.

If you have a ghetto blaster it’s really valuable to have in your room so that you can listen to some of the CDs. Then you can go back if you really like someone. Last year there were a couple of people I didn’t know at all and I was just so excited about them after I’d listened to their CD.

Gudrun Eichbauer:
I will go right in connection there.

I don’t have a sheet, pre se for you to take along, but taking some basic information applies on the other side as well.

Think about, this is really to make connections. You’re not here just to sell, do a booking. Rather, it’s your personal way to be able to advertise. Advertising, in my view, only makes sense if you actually get people interested in what you do.

You do that by forming relationships, by asking questions and giving answers. The more you do that on both sides the more success is in the outcome.

As an artist, if you are individually representing at your table, obviously then, what is at the table is your material.

Nonetheless, like Tamsin says, there are many many details that a presenter has to deal with. They’re marketing, they’re bringing you in, they’re looking after your accommodation. That means the more information you can give them up front, the more helpful you’ll be in making this event happen. Really, what you’re thinking of is the final outcome, which is the performance. Any small detail that can be discussed in advance is of help. From a manger’s point or from and artist’s point of view, I find it always also very important for the presenter to not by shy in really coming to the tables and asking questions. For instance, I’m normally a very shy person and when I’m going shopping I hate people coming after me and telling me I’m supposed to buy something here. Well, I’m pretty well capable of looking at things and saying, ‘Okay, this is what I like, this is what I don’t like: this is what suits me, this doesn’t suit me.’

As an artist, don’t feel that it is your product that’s either bad or good, or this artist is better than another artist. It's just the communities and the presenters, from schools, from small towns, from large towns from big halls, everyone has different needs. You, as an artist, just have to put that into perspective. ‘Am I able to go to the Chan Centre, or am I an artists that prefers, and is better suited for a house concert or for a smaller venue?’ Be very clear in where you want to perform and try to find that out when a presenter comes to your booth. When you are there, don’t just tell them what you do and how good you are and all the goodies that you have, rather ask a lot of questions. That’s my biggest thing, I try find out what the presenter normally does: how big is his hall, is it a church is it a school gymnasium without a stage, is it a real theatre, does he have stuff to assist, are there changing rooms, are there no changing rooms accessible?

I am one of the managers who is quite detailed in putting on the needs for the artists to make the show happen. But I try in my conversation as well as in my written material to make it the least threatening. It should not be a put off. It should be, ‘ Okay, if I don’t have water, after fifteen minutes, I will not be able to speak anymore.’ The basics.

What you are presenting as an artists and the needs that you have to be able to perform; be honest about it. Not Madonna-like but honest. I always say to the presenter, ‘I put in what would be the ideal scenario. You let me know what you can’t do.’ And we then go through the technical rider or the contract where certain stipulations are given and we talk about it. We say, ‘Okay, in our community this is not possible.’ Then, as an artist or as a manger I have an opportunity to then decide, ‘Okay maybe, I can’t go there.’

As an artist thinking about touring BC for the first time, or any other province in Canada, you need to be aware of the full spectrum. It’s not just the performance where you’re going. You will be affected from the touring. How long does it take there?

The presenters are the wealth of knowledge in that aspect; to tell you how to get there, how long it’s going to take. Maybe it’s just a one-hour ride, but it might be the one-hour ride from hell going there in the winter.

So you need to be prepared because, in some areas of your performance, if you’re stressed out, it’s not going to help. That’s going to then be transmitted to your audience and it’s going to be an unpleasant situation for both of you.

TM:
Most presenters like to do the best they can for the artists who come. We try to arrange to g the extra mile if we can, if it’s within our budget or if it’s within our volunteership.

There’s another area that comes out of that and that’s the theatre cut.

Like Gudrun was saying, some places have a Chan Centre and some of us have a church. Some charge $35 for a ticket and some charge ten.

Artist’s fees vary quite a bit, and I didn’t know that either when I started. Sometimes what an agent might do is choose a larger centre and get a little bit more of a fee from that place because they will potentially have a larger audience and a higher ticket price, but they then may negotiate a lower fee for the same artist going to a different smaller community.

]However, I have always felt that wasn’t my place to discuss with other presenters particularly. Presenters do talk about it, but if someone asks me about a fee I just give a general amount and maybe a little bit more than I actually paid, just to be on the safe side. That’s up to the presenters to negotiate for themselves.

The other thing is, I have actually been approached by artists asking how much other artists charge and I didn’t feel that was for me to pass on either. They need to talk among themselves and establish that. I know that for beginning artists it’s hard. That was one of the questions we had last year, ‘How much should I charge?’

Well, I should let you talk about that.

GE:
Well, I guess it’s like with anything. Particularly as an artist, if it’s yourself that you’re trying to sell, to gauge for yourself what am I worth, how can I guage that? Nowadays, I must say, it has actually improved from when I started out because, at the time, it was incredibly secretive. There was no information, you were basically shooting into the dark with your estimate. You had to go from somewhere and you didn’t know whether your pricing was totally off the wall and nobody would be able to afford it or whether you were under selling yourself.

Nowadays, because BC Touring Council is very good in terms of their listings on the website, you can get a general feeling of where artists’ fees are and you can relate that to what you do and also on the level of experience, how many years you have been in this business, many years have you been doing it with that particular show? You might have been in business for twenty years but you might have come up with a new product that needs to get known and needs to be introduced.
Like Tamsin said, it’s dangerous to talk about a product but it is very similar. You have to introduce a product and it takes a while to build up a demand for it. The higher the demand, obviously, the higher you can set your fees.

I usually make two prices. That is, I don’t generally include the travel and accommodation into the price. I know that some presenters have opportunities, actually, it’s one of the things I encourage with presenters, is to find sponsorships for accommodation, for instance. If you, as an artist are able…in BC that doesn’t apply, if you’re staying and touring in BC, but sometimes, if you’re going into another province, you have access to travel grants. If that is the case, obviously, you only want to charge the presenter the fee that actually is for your performance. So you have a scale of what you think is appropriate for your performance and the many years of developing the show and then your expenses. Don’t make it so that you are losing, because it sets an example and it continues sliding off. On both sides, the more open how the fee comes together -- although it’s an individual situation and it should not be compared to each other, even in the Contact room among the artists. It’s difficult to compare one artist and one product to another. Although you need to ask questions at the same time, it’s a private thing and each time, it’s a situation between two people who negotiate that particular event. So keep that in mind.

TM:
There are a lot of people here who are worth talking to..

One of the most important things, I think is -- I mean, it’s called Contact and it is all about contact. If you’ve come with a group, try to split up a bit if you can just so you can meet more people.

We used to have all the meals together, which was terrific because you could meet so many more people at that time. So try to arrange to go to out lunch with some people that you might think would be helpful or could give you more information.

If you look around -- Gudrun and I have eventually worked this out -- but if you have a red name, you are a presenter and if you have a black name you are a performer or a manager or an artist.

If you look for people who come from communities that are roughly the same size as yours and you have lunch with them, or dinner, and you talk to them about what they’ve presented, what’s been successful for them in the past, what different events the host there, how they advertise; all that kind of thing, it’s tremendously helpful. And if you can get together with people who are somewhere near you, a really valuable thing is to share the same artist on a tour, to set up a mini tour within your area. It’s good for the artist and it’s good for you. It’s a kind of double pay back thing.
Again, it’s a good idea, if you have to report back to your body, to send one person to one workshop and one to the other, so that you can take as much information back to your council or your group, whatever it is.
It’s also -- now, this is something people often don’t do, I included, however, try and type up notes from the things that you do go to and make a presentation to your board if you have one. They need to learn what you have learned by coming here. Often, you sort of absorb that information and then you go back and say, ‘oh yeah we had a really great time. We saw this that and the other and blah, blah blah,’ and then it all sort of dies a death. But you get some really wonderful ideas for promotion and volunteer work and all that kind of thing and it needs to be presented to the rest of your board. You need to fire them up and get them on board. Part of the point of doing this is actually taking the information and using it. Funny thing, that.
During the workshops, it’s sometimes really hard to remain focused, particularly when it’s a round table discussion. If you find something you really want to ask about but might be a little bit off topic, make sure you make a note of it and then ask either the presenter of the workshop afterwards or during the question time. Sometimes I’ve been to workshops and they’ve been really interesting but they’ve ended up going in quite a few directions and we only have an hour or so in there.
Look out for Board Members. Do you all have -- (to Gudrun) You’re a Board Member, aren’t you? Do you have anything extra that says, ‘I am a Board Member’? No?

GE:
It doesn’t seem like, this year. And there’s the other one, too. Aside of the Board Members are the delegates that come from organizations such as BC Arts Council, Canadian Heritage, Canada Council. I don’t know how they are identified this year, we haven’t figured that out.

It’s very important to access these people here, if you can. Try to do it in a way that is taking into consideration that we are so many people. On one hand you want to stimulate a connection, but not too much of it. Also in the times when you are, for instance, travelling to the theatre on the bus, the socializing times. Try to meet people. At the same time don’t occupy too much of anybody’s time. I always think, and I tell artists this, when you are going to a contact like this, particularly in the beginning, if you’re able, of the 200 people or the 250, that you actually make a real connection with maybe maximum ten people, that’s a good success because you will retain that. There will be the other hundreds, unfortunately that you don’t really meet. Nonetheless, if you come regularly, you will meet more people and you will get connections going.

TM:
I just have a note here, which is always make sure you get some fresh air every day. And wear really comfy clothes. By the end of the day, you’re in agony if you’re trying to look smart but are pinched. Enjoy yourself and have a really good time. There are an awful lot of nice people here and it’s a thoroughly good time.
Thank you very much and enjoy yourselves.
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